'Hun' not a sectarian term, Celtic fans' chief tells committee
Calling opposing football fans "Huns" is not sectarianism, the chairwoman of a Celtic supporters group has told MSPs.
- By David Clegg, political editor
- Published in the Courier : 07.09.11
- Published online : 07.09.11 @ 09.01am
Jeanette Findlay, of the Celtic Trust, made the controversial claim to the Scottish Parliament's justice committee while giving evidence about Alex Salmond's planned crackdown on football-related bigotry.
"It's never been used to refer to a Protestant or any member of any religious group — it refers to a Rangers supporter," she insisted.
"And up until a few years ago Rangers supporters referred to themselves as Huns. It doesn't have any religious connotation whatsoever, it never has."
Ms Findlay compared it to Celtic fans being known as Tims, which she didn't find offensive, the committee heard.
"Sometimes it refers to Hearts because we call them the wee Rangers," she added. Her comments came as former Scotland player Pat Nevin revealed he had stopped taking his son to Celtic matches because of sectarian chanting in praise of the IRA.
Mr Nevin, who played in the 1980s and 90s for clubs including Chelsea, Everton and Motherwell, said he had been "driven from the club he loves" and hoped "good legislation would go through".
Meanwhile, Mark Dingwall, board member of the Rangers Supporters Trust, said Ibrox fans felt particularly targeted by the proposed new laws.
"What our fans and organisations have started to say is if we have to clean up our act, everyone else has to do the same."
"Fair game"
"So, therefore, everything that is offensive, by any football club, whether it's under regional rivalry, or under sectarian rivalry, or whether it's just winding up the opposition, then it's all fair game because if it's going to happen to us it's got to happen to everybody."
Derek Robertson, a former communications director at Dundee United, also gave evidence to the committee in his current role with supporters group ArabTRUST.
He urged for a clearer definition of what constituted a sectarian crime and claimed growing up in Dundee he had "never been exposed" to sectarianism.
Greig Ingram, board member of the Aberdeen FC Trust, also questioned the wisdom of criminalising chants without a specific definition of what was not acceptable.
He said: "Would somebody chanting about my predilections for alleged activities with farmyard animals be offensive?"
Fans of Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts football clubs were also represented at the session. And Abertay University sociology and criminology lecturer Dr Stuart Waiton said the bill risked creating an "authoritarian and illiberal society".
He also repeated claims, first made in The Courier, that the resultant bill, if enacted, risks being seen as a "snobs' law".
"Snobs' law"
"We have a form of west-end dinner party etiquette being demanded at football. This is genuinely what's happening. This is a snobs' law, potentially. We're targeting, specifically, football fans."
The committee has already heard evidence from security chiefs at both Rangers and Celtic as well as Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland and the chairman of the Scottish Police Federation.
The bill will create two offences on football-related behaviour regarded as offensive and threatening. One deals with disorder around matches, with the other relating to serious internet threats.
The legislation comes in the wake of high-profile incidents of football related sectarianism.
The SNP originally wanted to pass the bill before parliament went into recess ahead of the football season kicking off.
However, opposition parties raised concerns over the speed of change and First Minister Alex Salmond agreed it would not be rushed through.
Instead, the plans were opened up to further scrutiny with an aim to be in place on January 1.
10.10am - 07.09.2011 bigal - perth, scotland Report This
The term hun in this context originated in the Scottish Highlands as slang for the Hanoverians - the first supporters of William of Orange. No sensible Rangers fan should be offended by this. Fenian comes from Fianna - Celtic warriors - no sensible Celtic fan should be offended either.
11.48am - 07.09.2011 JB - Dundee, Scotland Report This
@bigal - I've heard Rangers and Celtic fans being called a lot of things, some justified, some would be considered offensive but this is the first I have heard of them being 'sensible'!!!
11.59am - 07.09.2011 Richie - Edinburgh, UK Report This
Snobs law? What a lot of rubbish. I'm a football fan from a working class background and like the majority of scottish football fans (certainly the majority of non-OF fans and I suspect the majority of OF fans too) I have never felt the need to abuse someone based on their race or religion.
12.15pm - 07.09.2011 Abby - Fife, Scotland Report This
To keep to the panto theme, "oh yes, it is!!" The SNP was warned this was a can of worms. Undaunted, and determined to make its mark, it has gone ahead and will reap the whirlwind by creating an impossible situation for the police.
03.09pm - 07.09.2011 Not Billy Nor Tim - Dundee, Scotland UK Report This
Good point, Abby. Ridiculous comment by the Celtic Trusts. For the avoidance of any doubt, the 'Huns' moniker is, 100% of the time, followed by a word which questions, with large amounts of venom thrown in, the parentage of the abused individual. It's the same with 'Fenian'.
09.14pm - 07.09.2011 Trips - Aberdeen, Scotland Report This
@ Not Billy Not Tim - Sorry mate but your claim just isn't true. I've been at Pittodrie then the Aberdeen support have sung "Go home ya Huns". At no point is anybodies parentage questioned, rather it was sung to mock them as we were, at the time, beating them.
05.29pm - 08.09.2011 Not Billy Nor Tim - Dundee, Scotland UK Report This
@ Trips I read with interest your claim then realised it was an April Fool's joke: I mean Aberdeen winning come on!!! BTW, you and I both know the sing isn't being sung for fun, or because it's catchy just as football fans know Dons fans hate Rangers, so - where should they "go home to"?
10.55pm - 08.09.2011 Trips - Aberdeen, Scotland Report This
@ NBNT - We were 2-0 up on them at one point at Pittodrie last season but threw it all away. :( Still, it doesn't get away from the fact the work 'Hun' was used and nobodies parentage was question so, as I said before, your claim was incorrect. Their home would be where they live.
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